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Introduction - survivalist community

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Previous Entry Introduction Nov. 26th, 2008 @ 01:09 pm Next Entry
Since the wife joined, I figure I should also. wolfmare is my other half, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that she didn't think *I* was paranoid and such. Former Marine, 1991 to 1995, did electronics repair in there, handy with a sewing machine, trained as a computer admin and mechanic, and not afraid to get my hands dirty.

Late last week, the first part of our bug-out kit arrived, two sets of MOLLE gear. As it's not the most intuitive stuff to put together, I created a pictorial detailing how it all goes together. I plan on detailing what is going into various parts of our kit as we assemble it. Current plan is for several levels of bug-out kit, all of which can interlock and be used together. I've also found a supplier of the material used for mil-spec packs, and have plans to make at least part of our kit myself. If anyone is interested, I can detail plans and information for that also.

If anything I detail is already covered in another post, I'd be happy to remove to link to the other post(s). If anyone would be interested in more details, I'd be happy to post for the community.
Currently, on the list of Things To Do are:
    A Get Home Bag
    • Simple bag, containing what I would need to get home from work. Basically, would contain a small first aid kit, map of the area, compass, an MRE or two, and various other items.

    Personal Bug-Out Kit
    • More involved bag, containing enough supplies to last for 3 days if I was dropped in the middle of nowhere. Each of us would have one of these kits.

    Canine Bug-Out Kit
    • Yes, the dog would be coming with us. Since he's actually a working breed (Rottweiller) and not a yap-dog, he can carry part of his own kit. This would be a 3 day supply for him also

    Vehicle Bug-Out Kit
    • Basically a better stocked version of the Personal Bug-Out Kit. More food, better/more varied medical supplies, etc. This is for assuming the roads are still passable and usable. If nothing else, it would be a way to get partway to your bugout destination, and possible barter supplies. It could also be used as a Bug-In kit, in a situation that didn't warrant walking away from it all (local disaster, to get you through until help can arrive).



OK... didn't expect to make this long of a first post for the group, but as you can see, I HAVE been giving this a lot of thought. If there's interest, I can go into deeper detail and reasonings, and I welcome suggestions and discussion.
Current Mood: creative
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From:exvapi
Date:November 26th, 2008 08:47 pm (UTC)

Bug out bag

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This guy:
http://www.exxcess.info/bugoutbag.aspx

Has thought through what he thinks works at three levels, swap your get home for his immediate response and it sort of lines up.

He starts with what he carries in his pockets and builds from there.

Not the only answer, and your condition may vary, but it's easier to edit than start from scratch.
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From:techmav
Date:November 26th, 2008 09:45 pm (UTC)

Re: Bug out bag

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I'll have to dig through and see what all he lists for the bags. I admit, my plans are a geared a bit more towards 'End of The World' and survival thereof, with enough base supplies to get through the first year or so (ammo and water purification being the big parts of that).
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From:big_paul
Date:November 26th, 2008 10:06 pm (UTC)
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What sort of thing are you preparing for, is the real question.

I've always thought the idea of 'bugging out' to be dubious at best, unless the emergency is due to nuclear war or something. Now, granted, when I say that, it's only fair to 'declare my bias' and say that I don't live on a flood plain, or in a hurricane zone, or on an earthquake fault line.

Bugging out sounds to me like something that could accidentally, due to circumstances beyond your control, end up turing into "becoming a refugee".

There's 2 big problems with 'bugging out' philosophy:
1) Where are you going? Is your 'retreat' stocked with several months worth of food/water/etc? If yes, how do you keep it secured when you're not there, and if no, then you have to transport all that with you.
2) How are you getting there? Surely you don't think that, in the even that 'bugging out' or otherwise evacuating cites seems like a good idea, that you'll be able to drive, do you? Sure, you can stockpile fuel, but you can't do anything about traffic or other things that can block roads, and roads are a great place for an ambush.

And, as FerFal points out, in a post SHTF scenario, the rural areas are far more dangerous than urban areas. This is true in already marginal areas like sub-Saharan Africa, Lebanon, Columbia, Argentina, Afghanistan, or other conflict zones. When law and order falls apart, the rural areas end up controlled by bandits, militias, 'freedom fighters', criminal gangs, or all of the above.

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From:techmav
Date:November 26th, 2008 11:15 pm (UTC)
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In answer to your questions...
1) We do have a destination in mind. My fathers property. Plenty of deer in that area.
2) Driving is an option. No, I don't anticipate being able to drive the entire way, but any distance would help. I have counter-terrorism training, so I'm aware of the dangers.

No, I don't anticipate ever fully bugging out (walk out the door and never look back). But, having a kit that you can grab because you have to evac the area and knowing you would be fine for 3 days to a week is handy. In a situation where you have to wait for help to arrive (tornado, hurricane, other natural disasters), a vehicle kit would be useful for staying put and waiting it out.
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From:wolfmare
Date:November 26th, 2008 11:16 pm (UTC)
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Actually, from someone who's lived in rural areas for most of my life, I have to disagree. Rural communities have a lot lower population, and most country folks believe quite firmly in an honor system, as in your word is your honor and to break it means nobody will help you. And we'd be heading for an area where my husband knows a good portion of the population, or they know him.

And I have to ask, why so snarky? You aren't part of the community, which means you've come out of your way to read and reply to this. Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to figure out your reasoning.
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From:big_paul
Date:November 27th, 2008 06:50 pm (UTC)
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"Actually, from someone who's lived in rural areas for most of my life, I have to disagree. Rural communities have a lot lower population, and most country folks believe quite firmly in an honor system, as in your word is your honor and to break it means nobody will help you. And we'd be heading for an area where my husband knows a good portion of the population, or they know him."

Oh, let me clarify - when I say in post-crisis situations, that bad guys take over rural areas, I'm not talking about the people who are currently living in rural areas, I'm talking about basically criminal/organized crime types who tend to move in to rural areas after a breakdown of law and order occur.

This is of course not guaranteed, many things can influence this, and of course you're absolutely right - the people living in rural areas right now are far more trustworthy in general.
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From:wolfmare
Date:November 29th, 2008 04:23 pm (UTC)
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Personally, I'd feel sorry for anybody who tried that in either my, or my husband's, hometown. People in those areas tend to be pretty well armed.
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From:big_paul
Date:November 30th, 2008 01:22 am (UTC)
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Well, it depends on who exactly you're defending against, but I wouldn't take much comfort in that assessment.

I mean, in a breakdown-of-law-and-order situation, examples like South Africa, Columbia, Lebanon, or much of Africa teaches that just being armed isn't really enough. Wealthy farmers in South Africa will have 15-foot stone walls surrounding their property, and a staff of armed guards patrolling 24/7.

Consider it from the POV of the bad guys. You're a bad guy, you're in a collapse of civilization somewhere between the great depression and the current situation in Argentina. The rural areas are looking a lot like present-day Columbia. Starvation is a problem.

So, you, as a bad guy, (or, more likely, a group of 5-10 bad guys, all armed with rifles and shotguns or better), locate a moderately-well-stocked farm/farming community. You wanna attack because you're not far from starvation. You don't know if the inhabitants are armed or not, but you're gonna assume they are.

Given you as a bad guy, can wait as long as you like, or attack at 4 AM, or when people are otherwise occupied, what do the people living on that farm need to do to defend?

I mean, I'm not a security expert, but it sounds to me like that's a real difficult problem for the farmers. I mean, my grandfather was a farmer, there's a lot of work to be done on a farm. So you can't give that up to stand guard and patrol your property 24/7.

I guess if somebody does live rural in a SHTF scenario, you'd need to be living 'communally' for mutual defense, because you're gonna need rotating shifts of 'guard duty'.



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From:wolfmare
Date:November 30th, 2008 06:15 pm (UTC)
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The problem with what you're describing is that there's no real occurrence of it to point to in our culture at present. So there's no way to predict exactly how things will end up going, be it good or bad.

And seriously, whether you agree with my outlook, or my husbands, or disagree entirely... Why are you going out of your way to try and belittle someone else's plans? It doesn't affect you, nor will your opinion affect ours. Why bother?
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From:prenna
Date:November 30th, 2008 01:32 am (UTC)
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"There's 2 big problems with 'bugging out' philosophy:
1) Where are you going? Is your 'retreat' stocked with several months worth of food/water/etc? If yes, how do you keep it secured when you're not there, and if no, then you have to transport all that with you.
2) How are you getting there? Surely you don't think that, in the even that 'bugging out' or otherwise evacuating cites seems like a good idea, that you'll be able to drive, do you? Sure, you can stockpile fuel, but you can't do anything about traffic or other things that can block roads, and roads are a great place for an ambush."

This is part of the reason that I'm focussed on "primitive" skills. Instead of relying on a static retreat and stockpiles, I have (or am developing) a skills base that allows the wilderness, which we thankfully have a lot of here in Australia, to become my retreat.

As for getting there, I'll be doing it on foot, which is where the B.O.B. comes in. It becomes a stop gap solution for the couple of days it would take to get to wild food supplies.
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From:prenna
Date:November 30th, 2008 01:35 am (UTC)
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Oh and not having stockpiles also reduces the risk of being preyed on by gangs. Not having anything that is perceived of as having value to them increases your chances of being left alone.
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From:techmav
Date:November 30th, 2008 01:43 am (UTC)
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That's our philosophy also. About the only thing we plan on 'stockpiling' would be ammo and some way to filter water. Other than that, a weeks worth of food in the packs, to get us started.
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From:big_paul
Date:December 1st, 2008 08:09 am (UTC)
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Well, you got more skills than I do. I did an aircrew survival course about 12 years ago, and the final part of it was a 7-day hike/camping trip, with rations for 2-3 days. That was when I learned that rabbit is delicious, and you'd be surprised what you'll eat when you're really hungry.

Kidding aside, the wilderness skills are a great idea. I mean, assuming you don't live in, say, downtown NY, for example, if you can get by for a few months living in the woods, well, you could weather a lot of stuff.

Might be a good idea to stockpile some vitamins though. I'd be worried about scurvy/rickets/etc in that situation.
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From:mspgs2
Date:December 8th, 2008 03:00 am (UTC)

check this out

(Link)
http://beprepared.com/

they make a very good food system. Cant taste worse than MRE's.



now I prefer a three prong system for survival gear....

Number One.. home survival... which should be where you hunker down. Some of this comes along with you in the bug out kit. I figure lots of duct tape, plastic sheeting, maybe a gas/diesel generator, other methods of power. Ways to store large volumes of water (50 gallons plus) and extended dry foods supplies.
Some good sources of check lists? check out earthquake prep lists for California folks. Would apply well for ice storms, tornados, etc.

Number Two.. gotta get out... aka bugout.. you are going to your 2nd home in the hills.. it includes the third kit but also includes heavier stuff to use along the way if your not on foot. You need a decent car that is road worthy and hopefully off road worthy. Most of your home gear should go into it since you are going point A to B. If your plan is to get out and rough it.. your already in trouble. Hit the mall and hold off the zombie hoards with your weapons stock pile. You do have a weapons stockpile right? Number 1 item would be jerry cans for fuel. If you have a small dc powered electric pump you can syphon gas from gas stations and cars but plan ahead and keep things full when
times look dodgy. You can use the fuel after the crisis in your car. Keep a few bottles of stabil handy.


Number Three.. oh crap kit..... this is whats in your car and is carryable but can extend into a wilderness survival kit. Med and Shelter kit aside include stuff to hunt/fish. A small rifle is great but any handgun could work. Think stranded so a few warm blankets are life savers but with a waterproof poncho or shelter half. Once your wet.. your as good as dead. Some essential spare parts for the car are vital too. Think emergency belts, ways of bypassing clogged fuel/air filters, flat tire fix kits.

I'm of the mindset that each kit is a subset of the kit above it.

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From:First Aid Kit [1aidkit.com]
Date:March 29th, 2011 02:02 pm (UTC)
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What about Canine Bug-Out Kit? How to get this?
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From:techmav
Date:March 29th, 2011 04:39 pm (UTC)
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The canine kit is a saddle-bag style, with MOLLE webbing. Couple of MOLLE sustainment pouches and couple canteens of water. Would weigh about 10-15 pounds, which isn't much for a 150 pound dog.
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