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Previous Entry Surviving Gang Stalking / Community Stalking Feb. 24th, 2007 @ 12:36 pm Next Entry
Aha, so after years of thinking I was alone in this struggle, with the exception of a handful of friends I witnessed going thru similar situations, tho mostly unable to help them, due to their own braindamage or paranoia or perhaps due to the amount of focused gang stalking that counteracted my advice or observations.

I think I have found the contemporary name for this chemical world war I have been unofficially trying to track, out of survial and to help other people around me. The silent holocaust I have been seeing and writing about and trying to accurately comprehend. It is a very complicated situation, and without any knowledge of it, can go undetected for years and years, considering how difficult it is to prove and identify. Now whle this is hardly the biggest thing in my life, I have so many more improtant things, tho most of those have been robbed and stolen from me. As have people in my life by these stalkers and emotional slave traders, it is as all accounts say devestating and debillitating and a real holocaust with millions murdered and robbed globally. Community stalking, gang stalking, mobbing, work place harassment and other various names, though the facts and situation stay nearly identical in all cases.

Mother load of websites:

http://WWW.CATCHCANADA.ORG
http://www.c-a-t-c-h.ca
http://WWW.MULTISTALKERVICTIMS.ORG
http://WWW.MINDJUSTICE.ORG
http://freedomfchs.com/page6.html
http://www.bullyonline.org/
http://www.gangstalking.ca/
http://www.stopcovertwar.com
http://www.eharassment.ca




I think i will try and download all the websites and composite them incase anything happens to them. Also it looks like some very sick sort of weapons and violence is being used. Though how sickness like this can grip a community or society is still beyond me. It is the holocaust Nazi's of world war two, at work systematically robbing and murdering innocent honest people with these community and gang actions.

Whoa!

Excerpt from http://WWW.CATCHCANADA.ORG

What is Community-based Harassment?

Community-based harassment is a grown-up version of school yard bullying. Multiple individuals within a community participate in the harassment and stalking of a single individual. However, rather than attack a victim physically, techniques are used to undermine a person psychologically. This can be far more damaging than a physical attack because not only is it very hard to prove, but it is extremely traumatizing for the victim. (Also known as cause stalking or gang stalking).

What sets community-based harassment apart from the related examples to the right is that the reason it takes place is often obscure to the victim. Without a solid reason for its occurrence, victims are often dismissed as delusional.

In addition, this form of harassment often leaves the target a victim of ridicule among friends and family because of the subtle nature of the attacks, which further compounds the trauma to the victim. It is emotionally draining and isolating to the victims because it is extremely difficult to prove, and virtually impossible to prosecute.

View a video of gang stalking activity. Also, there is a slideshow of stills taken from the video.

Frequently Asked Questions about organized stalking groups.


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Why is this Happening?


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Although it is difficult for a non-victim to understand, it is not difficult to realize that many schoolyard bullies have never outgrown their unhealthy ways of dealing with conflict and pain.

Reasons may include revenge by people who feel slighted but prefer to remain anonymous. Revenge is more common than you may think, especially with the advent of the internet which allows "revengists" or "avengers" to share their ideas. See http://www.ekran.no/html/revenge/ or do a search on the word "revenge" to see for yourself.

It is also possible that such harassment has developed into a form of "sport" for the individuals who participate, not unlike a schoolyard bullying situation, which tends to center somewhat obsessively and irrationally around one individual who is perceived to be weak.

It is important to realize that our society's understanding of human psychology has grown exponentially over the last 50 years, allowing any hate or vigilante group to take full advantage of such knowledge. "Psychological warfare" is the perfect crime, because it causes the maximum damage to the victim, with the least chance of exposure of the perpetrator(s). Victims can very well be driven to suicide, while the explanation appears to be mental illness, so their claims are never investigated.

"Cause stalking [gang stalking] has been used by extremist groups since the early 1990s. The basic system is alleged to have been developed by the Ku Klux Klan and refined through years of use. The primary characteristic of cause stalking is that it is done by large groups of people. A target will always be followed, but he is unlikely to see the same stalkers very often. Many of these groups include hundreds of people."

- David Lawson,
Terrorist Stalking in America

Related Activities:

Other very similar phenomena include:

(1) Workplace harassment (or "mobbing")

(2) Vigilante style harassment of individuals such as abortion clinic workers, whistle-blowers and activists. Vigilante groups take the law into their own hands. Click here for two articles on vigilante groups.

Bullying of adults by other adults is a phenomenon which is sharply on the rise, as described by the Toronto Star Article entitled "Raging parents: The new schoolyard bullies". The article states that "compared to a few years ago [this phenomenon] is everywhere". Parents "can't control their rage" and "there is mounting concern about parents behaving badly". The bullying doesn't take place just one-on-one, but groups of parents gang up on individual teachers in internet chat-rooms by holding "daily instant message bashing sessions about teachers they dislike". Essentially, the bullying is organized, and the internet is a key tool in facilitating that organization.
~~~


This is a holocaust.



The world is a dangerous place,
not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on and do nothing.

~ Albert Einstein
Leave a comment
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From:none_too_subtle
Date:February 24th, 2007 06:14 pm (UTC)
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I don't know if it's /that/ severe. But since I am CONTINUALLY "subjected to" (not a victim of...I refuse to be /that/) this type of barrage, I think it's pure cowardice and jealousy, neither of which can really be explained (at least not here, and not in a quick response).

As an ADULT, I deal with it the same way I've dealt with "real life" stalkers; I ignore, ignore, ignore. What they want is similar to a two-year-old -- if you don't pay attention to them, or acknowledge their *positive* attention-garnering activities, then they become hostile and verbally abusive to the point of not only humiliating (or trying to) you, but making physical threats.

I've used elaborate coding on every single website in which I represent or belong to. Not only am I able to pinpoint who they are, but also where they live, how they "snuck in" when they tried to be anonymous, and can actually "zoom in" on them via satellite. There's NOTHING MORE DE-MYSTIFYING than discovering the true identities of these losers. Once you do, you realize why they're jealous or intimidated. They'd NEVER have the balls to approach us in REAL life for myriad reasons.

So I ignore. You were right, though, in the "ever-changing" thing, even though I have eight people who reload and read me every single day, it seems like NEW "i hate terris" pop up daily.

You know what they say -- there's no such thing as negative publicity. :) And I'll be DAMNED if I "plug" them on my websites. I'm sure there will be plenty who read this entry and FIT THAT BILL. Also, a team of psychs recently conducted studies that showed one of of every 10 people we meet suffer, to some degree, as sociopaths; unable to feel sympathy OR empathy. I put them in that lil DMSIV category.

Sickening, but you can deal with it withOUT being a victim. Plus, it helps when you have a TON of friends who're more than happy to "clear some issues up" with those cowards.
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:February 24th, 2007 08:15 pm (UTC)
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Thats an interesting statistic on the loss of empathy in society.

Though, it is not as easy to defend as you might think. Chemical warfare, and terrorism is what these people are using.

Corruption and cowardice are leading them mostly as you say, but it is a much harder problem to stop if it hits you full force.

It is much more difficult then you think to fight. ANd with out understanding the problem, it can be nearly impossible to even figure out what is happening to you.
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From:none_too_subtle
Date:February 24th, 2007 11:45 pm (UTC)
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Understanding and education are KEY to all this.

Okay...yahoo call coming through :D
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From:gigglingwizard
Date:February 25th, 2007 09:20 am (UTC)
(Link)
I looked at the CATCHCANADA.ORG site, and it appears they're lumping together some very different issues.

As for high-tech harrassment, there's no doubt it's going on. Coverage has been spotty, but it has been covered in mainstream media. The military is openly admitting to developing non-lethal weapons that can be used for crowd control or on the battlefield. I don't remember who it was, but some official insisted that these be tested on Americans before being put into use. They wanted to put to rest the concerns other countries had about the weapons being unsafe. The latest is a directed energy weapon that makes the targets' skin feel as though it's burning.

Most of this stuff isn't available to the average Joe, though. It's cutting edge military hardware that they're spending gobs of money to develop. Lower-tech stuff is possible, though. I once heard of a case of people rigging up a microwave to beam through a wall to their next door neighbor who, after several years of this, developed cancer. The couple responsible was somehow discovered and charged. This kind of thing is really, REALLY rare, though.

Also, no doubt adult-on-adult bullying occurs. Some people never grow up and learn to play nice with others. These tend to be the sorts of people who get involved with gangs or who go straight from high school to prison. I had a couple neighbors like this. They'd get drunk, smack their families around, stand in the street screaming for me to come out and fight, and then try to break my door in. There are jerks in the world. Nothing new there, but these sorts of people don't have access to top secret military technology.

As for the gang stalking...I'm trying to suspend judgment, but from the video clip I watched there, this really looks like someone suffering from paranoid delusions and loose associations. The woman sitting in the car with the video camera was nuts. "See the white car, how it's missing a wheel cover? That's important, as you'll see in a minute." Later, the white car drives back the way it came. I never saw it do anything to her, and I most especially never saw how it's not having a wheel cover meant ANYTHING.

She might as well have gone down the aisle of a grocery store with a concealed video camera saying, "Look at the way these items are arranged on the shelves. See how they're lined up? Red box, red box, white box, blue box? It's a message meant to mock me, but it's in code so other people won't notice it. It's very subtle, so if I go to someone for help, they won't believe me. And see how everyone I'm staring at is looking at me strangely, pointing at me and whispering to each other behind their hands? They're all in on it. See how they're pulling their children away from me? They're trying to brainwash the kids into thinking I'm crazy."

I'd be interested to see a documented case of confirmation of these fears--a recent case where a non-famous, politically insignificant, unemployed person is being harrassed by a cult, and the people get caught, and it's proven that, yes, they are all in on it together, and they have a sensible motivation that just wasn't realized by the victim and the whole lot of them were just too wimpy to confront the person face-to-face. Just one verifiable instance.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:June 11th, 2007 03:53 am (UTC)
(Link)
The missing hubcap is part of cause stalking "trade-craft" as are certain identifying stickers displayed on their cars or trucks. A car with a missing hubcap (usually off the same wheel) or other identifying characteristics are used repeatedly so the targeted Individual will be "sensitized" and know that they are being stalked. It's intended that an untrained observer won't see their actions as an organized assault. Read a review of "Cause Stalking" or what used to be called "Terrorist Stalking in America".

Most of these stalking cults (and they are cults) are connected to organized crime groups, are hired by criminals and stalk innocent targets for pay. They also attack targets to steal their money and property. They will try to set up a situation where they can sue the target. They often commit insurance fraud.

But they will pick people at random for practice and stalk a few real criminals to try to justify their own highly criminal activities.

Some targets are: Witnesses to certain crimes
Sexual assault or rape victims that can identify the perp
People who threaten to sue certain corporations
People who have sued certain corporations and won
Isolated people with money and property
Anyone who opposes or interferes with them
There is not a limit on who can be targeted for any reason

These groups will even target certain public officials and law enforcement officers. They will target Judges that preside over the trial of one of their members.

These criminal groups ignore the rule of law and violate all the basic principals of human rights.



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From:gigglingwizard
Date:June 11th, 2007 01:29 pm (UTC)
(Link)
A car with a missing hubcap (usually off the same wheel) or other identifying characteristics are used repeatedly so the targeted Individual will be "sensitized" and know that they are being stalked.

But you see, most people aren't even likely to notice a missing hubcap, so it's pointless to use that as a method for harassing someone. Even if the target did begin to notice, only someone who's either paranoid or narcissistic would think it had anything to do with them. If I noticed that three out of four cars passing my house were missing their left front hubcap, I'd just think, "Wow, those hubcap thieves have been hitting a lot of cars in this neighborhood. I see their M.O. is to just steal the left front one. Maybe I'd better go check mine." But then, I was a cop for six years. I'm guessing most people wouldn't notice at all.

Most of these stalking cults (and they are cults)...
Anything to back this up? Where are the concerned relatives upset that their kid has run off and joined a stalking cult? Where are the disillusioned former members who want to get away from their cult? What are the names of some of the charismatic leaders? What is the address of one of their hangouts? Cults recruit. If someone wanted to join a stalking cult, where would they go? Who would they talk to? There's no corroboration that these things even exist except by other people having the same delusions.

Most of these stalking cults (and they are cults) are connected to organized crime groups...

Where is this information coming from? If it's a private arrangement between the cults and the criminals, then the only way anybody discovers that is to a) eyewitness the deal taking place, b) hear a cult member refer to the deal with the criminals, or c) hear one of the criminals refer to the deal with the cults. The only other possibility is that the "victim" cooked it up in her own imagination, convinced herself that it was true, and talked to other crazy people who went along with the idea. "Yeah, yeah, that happens to me, too!" Working with the mentally ill, I've seen this way too often to recount. They add to each other's stories.

...and stalk innocent targets for pay.
The strikes me as odd, depending on what you mean by "innocent." If you mean "undeserving," okay. But if you mean "totally uninvolved and oblivious random stranger," why would gangsters bother paying for that? And again, where's this information coming from? How many dollars were paid to whom and by whom? If we can't account for one single case where this information is available, it probably never happened.

They will try to set up a situation where they can sue the target.
Excellent! If they're going through the courts, that means there are records! Give me some case law. Name one case where someone was sued, and the plaintiffs were a stalking cult. It doesn't even have to have been proven in court that they were a cult--just having their names is a good jumping off point for an investigation.

They often commit insurance fraud.
Cases? Do you know of one police report where this was the detective's finding? One insurance company looking into this?

There is not a limit on who can be targeted for any reason
Wanna bet? I'm willing to bet money that they won't stalk me. I want them to. I'm friendly, desperate for attention, and I'm not scared of stickers or missing hubcaps. Let 'em come around. I'll invite them in for tea. All you have to do is locate one of these (pre-existing) stalking cults and send them after me. I'm betting you can't. You'd have to form such a group yourself (and that doesn't count).
From:(Anonymous)
Date:June 12th, 2007 08:20 am (UTC)
(Link)
Quote - "I was a cop for six years."

I'm not talking about you, but some say there are x-cops and some current cops involved along with other government workers like city, county and state. Many others in communities are recruited to participate. It is usually called "cause stalking" in these circles.

Some say that part of this is a government program similar to cointelpro/mkultra. It is said that is why it is being covered up.

I know cops that know about this and they don't understand it. I've heard it said that it is being presented as an alternative justice system against targets that are are said to be a danger to society. My question for that is who says they are a danger and if there is real evidence why not arrest and prosecute them.

Chemical and electronic weapons are being used against many of these targets. I guess you know what lsd and pcp are, just to name two among many.

It appears targets are selected by anyone able to influence those that can make the decision. Some of these selections are bound to be self serving.

Quote - "But you see, most people aren't even likely to notice a missing hubcap, so it's pointless to use that as a method for harassing someone."

I know it sounds silly, but they do many other things that are even more bizarre. Some people are more easily rattled than others. It is supposed to sound unbelievable if repeated to anyone. That's the point. It sounds stupid to most people when they first hear of it.

Quote - "Anything to back this up? Where are the concerned relatives upset that their kid has run off and joined a stalking cult? Where are the disillusioned former members who want to get away from their cult? What are the names of some of the charismatic leaders? What is the address of one of their hangouts? Cults recruit. If someone wanted to join a stalking cult, where would they go? Who would they talk to?"

Definition - A great devotion to a person, *idea*, object, *movement (cause)*, or work.

The actual cult-like groups involved are similar to groups such as "The Travelers". If you were a cop, you know what that group is.

The core of the career criminal part of this is an "underground" cult, probably better described as coordinated cooperation of cult-like criminal syndicates. This assault stalking/gaslighting is just a small part of their business. Most actual members are generational but they constantly recruit during their work. Quiting the group is not usually a "healthy" thing to try.

They use the internet along with every other type of communication.

Most people in the community that participate are not members, just duped or coerced. There are "leaders" that bridge the gaps between the different elements/groups involved.

Quote - "I'm willing to bet money that they won't stalk me. I want them to. I'm friendly, desperate for attention, and I'm not scared of stickers or missing hubcaps. Let 'em come around. I'll invite them in for tea."

You don't want these people after you. If I thought you or anyone else could stop these people, I would try to refer them to you. The victims I know are not random, put simply, they are thought to "know too much" and are contract "hits". Some have been assaulted for many years. They want the target to react violently or mentally break down. When you do, they have won. And having tea or eating anything where these people can get to it is a huge risk.

There is endless information on google about this. Some of it is disinformation and misinformation.

The thing I find so strange about it is the association of unrelated, dissimilar people who have different ideas of what they are doing and why.

This is a good general description of cause stalking/gangstalking.

http://www.gatago.com/alt/clearing/avatar/24085311.html

This is a writing questioning the existence of gangstalking. The comments by victims are more interesting than the writing.

http://frontcover.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/3/#comments

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From:gigglingwizard
Date:June 12th, 2007 02:27 pm (UTC)
(Link)
This is a good general description of cause stalking/gangstalking.

I don't need any further description. I've heard it described to death. What I want is some solid identifiers.

Allow me to illustrate. Let's imagine for a moment that you grew up in a place where everyone was nice to children, and you had never heard of child abuse. I tell you about it and you don't believe it exists, because, after all, why would anyone want to hurt innocent kids? So then I, trying to convince you that child abuse is real, go on and on telling you all the horrible things that have been done to kids over the years. I could tell stories about horrible abuses all day long, but that doesn't do a damned thing to prove that any of it actually exists.

Rather, if I wanted to prove to you that it exists, I'd point you to news stories, police reports, obituaries, interviews with convicted abusers. I'd point you toward childrens's protective agencies. I could clearly demonstrate that there are specific people--with names, addresses, and photographs--who have abused children.

Now, gaslighting and stalking are nothing new. And I've no doubt that small, nasty groups, whether they be gangs or businesses or Bible study groups or whatever, have done these things. But if you want anyone to believe that there's this vast epidemic of random, innocent people being stalked by a massive, organized conspiracy of every "scary" group in the world from the CIA to the Jesuits, you're going to have to show some evidence. By evidence, I don't just mean a whole bunch of people saying it happened to them. Five million people saying they saw Bigfoot, but each of them having a different story, does not prove that bigfoot exists, especially when there's not a a single photograph or footprint.

If these gangstalkers are *assaulting* people, then where are the injured or dead victims? You mentioned the Travelers. We know they exist. I can point to the 2002 conviction of Madelyne Toogood for beating her daughter. I can find out the address of the house where they found her outside Ft. Worth, Texas, and how police discovered that hundreds of vehicles were registered to hundreds of owners who all said they lived there. I can point to the recent Lovell case in central Ohio, where Nick and Jack Lovell of Crooksville, TN and a couple of their accomplices, Jeff Bragg and Christopher L. Davis from Chillicothe, were convicted. With a bit of digging, I could dig up the dates on which they committed their crimes, the amounts they bilked people for, etc.

Do you see the difference? So far, I haven't seen a shred of that kind of evidence about gangstalking. Don't just go on and on about how it's done or by what "kinds" of people. Give me a name. Even if they use fake names, that's a start. It's claimed that these gangstalkers have assaulted people. I want a picture or at least a physical description of who threw the punch, and I want to see the resulting injury. If this really exists, this shouldn't be hard. If it's as massively widespread as is claimed, there's bound to have been AT LEAST ONE gangstalker slip up and get caught. Who?

That's one reason (the biggest) why I don't buy this. The other is because the people reporting it are mentally ill. I'm not saying they're mentally ill because they're experiencing this, I'm saying it because I see them presenting other identifiable signs of paranoid schizophrenia--loose associations; derailment and tangentiality; "word salad" writings; a tendency to blame a variety of problems on omnipotent, invisible, archetypal persecutors. Schizophrenia can generally be described as over-inclusive conceptualizing. Schizos think things are related that aren't, or more specifically, they think things are related in ways that they aren't. For example, "logs" rhymes with "hogs" and "dogs," so a schizophrenic might draw the conclusion that there's some kind of relationship between lumberjacks and police dogs. A paranoid schizophrenic would think that that relationship is conspiratorial, and that he is the target of that conspiracy. "Lumberjacks wear plaid shirts, just like the plaid the police bagpipers wear, so...the Scottish Secret Service is trying to cut down all our trees, and the police are in on it!!!"
From:(Anonymous)
Date:June 12th, 2007 06:57 pm (UTC)
(Link)
I don't really care who believes what. There has been real evidence gathered about some of these crimes and there will be more. I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to post their real evidence on the internet.

There are many more perpetrators of this crime posting than victims. The perpetrators are mostly the only ones interested in posting.

They post crazy sounding stories intended to make the real victim/victims appear crazy.

They post and endlessly argue that this "gangstalking" thing isn't real.

They post comments suggesting the real victim/victims are paranoid schizophrenics.

It's always the same, isn't it, gigglingwizard.

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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 13th, 2007 05:59 am (UTC)
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a large part of "cause stalking" is "false cause" stalking, whereby victims of stalking, become perpetrators, by stalking other victims as a result of being stalked with false information and false agendas, thus recruiting, the victims to perpetuate the stalking, in the sort of "5 monkeys and bannana in the stair way routine."

gang stalking, by youth gangs, or other gangs or criminals, is real. They watch and record the victims movements, and set out snares, or traps, using other victims, or gang members, to attack, rob or attempt to kill the victim or victims, or cause them to be imprisoned.
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From:gigglingwizard
Date:June 13th, 2007 01:09 pm (UTC)
(Link)
I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to post their real evidence on the internet.

Why would that be stupid? If anything, going public would be the safest thing to do. If I stumbled upon a dangerous secret--a secret government plot or something to do with mafiosos or whatever--and I knew they wanted to kill me to keep it quiet, the smartest thing for me to do would be to blab to the whole world. I'd post it on the internet, talk to CNN, do the talk show circuit, the whole nine yards, because that way, if they kill me, it proves that what I was saying was true, and then everybody will know what these bad guys were trying to keep hidden. On the other hand, if I don't get killed, it makes it look like I made the whole thing up, which is what the bad guys would want. By going public right away and in the biggest way possible, I turn the tables so it's in the best interests of the enemy to keep me alive.

Moreover, if it's a case that's already settled--bad guys arrested, convicted, and sent to prison--and the story's already been documented by the courts, news, etc., what harm could possibly come of putting a link on the internet? How is that "stupid?"
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 18th, 2007 05:51 am (UTC)
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I keep thinking about going to the news media. But i have pretty much even less faith in them. They are owned and operated for money.
I have been to the FBI, the Fire Dept, the Police, and the Secret Service.
With very little confidence or positive response from anyone, except the Secret Service, who sem much more competant and serious then the other people.
I am convinced beyond any doubt that most of the law enforcment and emergency services are involved and turning a blind eye intentionally to these "Travellers" though I think the Secret Service, are much more military, and very serious about these things.

I do see that this is a much bigger problem, then just myself, and hardly that I am singular in being affected by these people.
I do think that Canada, and the city of Toronto, with its legislation, and specialized community staling police unit, are much more public and open about this problem. Though I do have reason to believe that other countries and the US have "secret" police units tracking and dealing with these people.

WHile I think it might help going to the News Media, I also have some understanding of investigation, and the fact the the USa seems to be choosing to pursue these criminals, in their own 'less public' fashion. While I may not know all the fact of what they are doing, I am willing to respect that there are people here who also are very involved and do not wish the public involved.

WHile it may not be my beilief or faith in them, I am doing the best I can right now, to follow what authorites have advised me to do and be paitient while they try and do something about these atrocity and criminal terrorists, who are using audio stalking, and terrorism, as well as organized criminal persecution and chemical warfare.

Personally, I am more considering going to the military, ad these people are going beyond normal criminal activities and the use of chemical warfare and the FBI's rather shoddy responses, whether genuinely shoddy, or simply their way of doing things, as many people do many things, but do not have authority to disclose what they are doing to the public or victims.


It is certainly dangerous to be public and to broadcast or promote what these people are doing, especially if you are the victim. I have had a dozen or so very dangerous murder attempts of people attacking or stalking or stalking and attacking me through this audio stalking intigations, as well as what looks like organized crime (Taco) hiring criminals to attack or kill me.

Though personally I have been keeping a rather personal and public record of what has been going on, as well as what these stalkers are trying to convince people is going on. As it seems that as much of what these people do, is to assasinate peoples characters, and to use the law enforcment and legal system as a murder weapon, as much as use victims against each other, as much as try to falsely control and use any one as victims to attack other people.



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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 13th, 2007 06:12 am (UTC)
(Link)
You don't need to buy this.

Mentally ill? SO you are a doctor? or in anyway qualified to judge people's mental states.

For that matter, it should be noted, that more is NOT known about the brain or about health v. illness, right now, at this point in western medicines history, to really even qualify most medical terms, or judgments.


Not to mention, that victims of chemical warfare, one of the main results is mental illness, as are many other victims of poisoning, notably, atropine and scopalmine poison vitims, demonstratably become mentally ill for a period of a week or more, as has been long known, and was the foundation of the imfamous ancient "Thuggee" organization fo criminals. AS was their historic record of poisoning people to rape, rob and murder them. Yet even with several hundred years of this knowledge, so-called modern medicine is not testing or treating for this sort of real-life cause of so-called mental illness signs. How many mental illness hospitals, are really full of chemical or poison victims? Why is this not even being tested for?



Ps- your so called reasoning demonstrates fallacies of logic,
and not real logic.
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From:gigglingwizard
Date:June 13th, 2007 01:35 pm (UTC)
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Mentally ill? SO you are a doctor?

No, and I don't need a doctorate degree to recognize when a person is vomiting, bleeding, or unconscious, either.

or in anyway qualified to judge people's mental states.

Yes, actually. I'm a nationally registered First Responder, and recognizing a patient's mental state is an important part of assessing their condition, as it's sometimes a sign of a physical problem like shock or poisoning.

Furthermore, I was a Crisis Intervention Officer during my last few years as a cop. It was my job to deal with mentally ill/emotionally disturbed/developmentally disabled people to de-escalate crisis situations and try to divert these people into treatment so they didn't end up in jail. The initial training was a 40-hour course taught by psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, and mental health care consumers and their families. I've seen a good deal of schizophrenia, both with and without paranoid delusions, and I recognize the importance of separating fact from fantasy in a criminal investigation. Just because someone is paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not really trying to hurt them, but real problems often get ignored when they're lumped in with imaginary ones.

This is how you make that separation. You focus your interview on hard facts--indepently verifiable bits of data as opposed to vaguely stated fantasies. So far, I haven't seen anything even close to hard data, but I have seen a whole lot of defensiveness and lashing out at anyone who dares to ask questions.

Not to mention, that victims of chemical warfare, one of the main results is mental illness...

That's the most intelligent thing I've heard in this whole discussion, certainly something to consider. If a victim could get tested for the presence of certain chemicals associated with this kind of attack, that would strengthen their claim.
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 13th, 2007 06:03 am (UTC)
(Link)
What a is this "Travellers" thing you talk about? Do you have any links to descriptins of it?


ASfor gang stalking, you might as well question the existence of youth gangs or organized crime in America. You will quickly find that it is a very real problems, as real as government corruption, or oligopolistic economic corruption, or about any sort of 'big' money corrutption or corporate/institutional corruption or organized fraud and crime...
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From:gigglingwizard
Date:June 13th, 2007 01:54 pm (UTC)
(Link)
What a is this "Travellers" thing you talk about?

It's a reference to a group known as the Irish Travellers. They're a wandering ethnic group from Ireland that is often accused of criminal activity, notably fraud.

Do you have any links to descriptins of it?

Sure. Here's a bunch of 'em: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-37,GGLD:en&q=irish+travellers

ASfor gang stalking, you might as well question the existence of youth gangs or organized crime in America.

Again, you're missing the point. I can VERIFY the existence of youth gangs by many, many means other than just a bunch of people telling me they believe in them. I can talk to gang members, look at their tattoos, study their handsigns and graffiti tags. I can talk to members of rival gangs about the conflicts between them. I can look at arrest reports and court records about their activities, and on and on. Same for the other atrocities you listed.

But not so for gangstalking. No arrests, no names, nothing whatsoever except people saying "I know it's real 'cause it is, and 'lots of people' say so." That's not proof. It's barely even anecdotal evidence. It's just an unsupported claim.

I'm not trying to prove it's not real, I'm trying to make those who claim it is PROVE it is. That way, if it is all just a delusion, maybe they'll be able to see it for such and get mental help. If there really IS something to it, I want to identify that so people can get legal help. Instead, all I'm getting is flak and vague allegations.
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 18th, 2007 06:06 am (UTC)
(Link)
yes yes, gangs are very real, no doubt about that. I have been aware of them and met and seen many gangs all through my life. as well as are 50,000 or more gangs tracked and watched by law enforcment nationally, with huge bodies of information about them available....


hmm, this IRish Travellers, that is very interesting. There are certain links in the stalking problems I have had since my cousin's strange death a few years ago, and my near death by murderes using the same method as my cousin.
And a stange and suspicious link, with a strange Irish man, that my father contacted, or was contacted by claiming a distant relation, as a rich Irish priest and international property owner and art dealer, which all sounds very very suspicious to me.

I am not so interested in proving this, as in stopping it. As I am totally convinced beyond any doubt, and I am also totally convinced that the police in the US and internationally are also totally convinced and proved of this and these people. But they are more trying to stop this, or at least create political so-called situations with these criminals. Which I think is very wrong, but I can see hwo in this sort of crime, that it quickly becomes political when all 'legal action' becomes untouchable, and it is a matter of vigilantism or political/economic trade offs. A sort of you don't stalk us, and we don't kill each other sort of thing, at the end of the investigations, right now. That is what I see the USA doing about this. AS it all points to big money led by people with absolutely no value system or morals. Personally I think it is pure terrorism and a matter of treason against the USA and against humanity, and that the USA should be using military force against these groups. THough when you get into USA criminal organized use of force, it often points towards the ilitary, as does youth gangs, which were orignially founded by ex-military. So would that just lead to military fighting military with in the US?

Though at the chemical warfare level, I think the police need to step down and military need to step up and take back the streets from these Atrocity chemical warfare criminals.
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 18th, 2007 06:15 am (UTC)
(Link)
You might be the victim of stalking. I see in your profile page, that many of the people on your friends list, have deleted their journals. This seems to be a pattern to online stalking, especially through LJ. Stalkers attack your friends list, and chase/stalk them entirely off the website or internet, with persecution, or attack them and drive them away from your journal personally.
I have seen many people online attacked (Flaming and Trolling) being a part of it. But I have also seen that these people are likely trying to drive people to suicide as well as drive others to attack them.

You should try to add more friends online, and try to keep up with as many of them as you have reasonable time to, as if these pople are trying to attack you online, the more people you can have helping to validate your presence the better.
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 13th, 2007 05:51 am (UTC)
(Link)
"...and stalk innocent targets for pay.
The strikes me as odd, depending on what you mean by "innocent." If you mean "undeserving," okay. But if you mean "totally uninvolved and oblivious random stranger," why would gangsters bother paying for that? And again, where's this information coming from? How many dollars were paid to whom and by whom? If we can't account for one single case where this information is available, it probably never happened."

why? extortion. one of the oldest organized criminal activities on record. Create a problem, to create (and sell) a false solution, or a solution to the problem they just created.

not to mention, some rather elaborate cases of using the victim to extort or use as a threat against other people. thus, creating a system of threat and victim, made entirely of victims, and keeping the instigators and real perpetrators from harm, or risk of being caught.


and like the anonymous commenter seems to insinuate: You do come off entirely sounding like a Gang Stalker, yourself...
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:June 13th, 2007 05:46 am (UTC)
(Link)


why are you anwering this anonomously?


you should also note, that these gangs, intentionally isolate victims, and drive off familly and friends, if not out right kill people or terrorize them, to keep them from offering assistance or help to the victim, intimes of need. As well as drive off law enforcement or emergency services, by lies or fraud.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:June 23rd, 2007 07:19 pm (UTC)
(Link)
I did not say I was a target of these kinds of assaults, but after just two posts got a stereotypical reply.

I'm always amused by anyone that can diagnose mental illness "on-line". I suppose the fact that perpetrators posing as victims posting "disjointed", " word garbled" accounts certainly could not be considered in such a "concise" and "highly professional" opinion. :)

What I have stated about this, I read from victim's accounts. The things I stated were common among many of the accounts and some can still be found on the Internet. There are striking similarities between many victims accounts. There is a large amount of disinformation by perpetrators and some misinformation by victims.

Most of the victims know why or at least had some idea of why they are being attacked or who instigated the attack.

By innocent, I mean that *most* of the hundreds of accounts I read were about people who claimed not to have a criminal record or any *real* intent to commit crimes. These people claimed they were or are being "gas-lighted" and *provoked* using typically described covert assault methods, and as a result of their reactions, being *labeled* as crazy, dangerous or paranoid schizophrenic.

Victims of crime have been labeled "crazy" by their attacking criminals since we developed speech. There are many more "creative" ways now to make it appear so using chemical assaults and basic slander.

One common thing is the money or monetary gain in some form including *gifts* and *favors* which can include just about anything. The "core" criminals probably participate because it is part of their job or actually their life.

"Following the money" is a common investigative technique, and you are correct, that if proved, "the money trail" would link offenders together.

If there are groups and individuals doing this type of crime for thrills, they obviously are sociopaths and probably do have other serious mental problems.

I'm not interested in pursuing these criminal groups in any way and am not preparing to. It is not my job and I have better things to do with my life. I don't have any "damning" evidence before or after the fact of one of these criminal "assault parades".

But as stated earlier by another poster, I would like to see these types of attacks end.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:October 18th, 2008 05:10 pm (UTC)

They go after Famous People Too

(Link)
I am a victim of this for 10 years and I know Brittney Spears has also been victimized and I feel bad for her - she was made out to be crazy, lost all her rights over her life, lost her kids and her rights to her money. I lost my kids, they tried to take my dog away and tried to isolate me from everybody and make me out to be dangerous - you can make someone dangerous by making people think you are dangerous. They will treat you wierd and it makes you very upset and definitely could work.

She was laughing when the police were taking our out of the house because she probably couldn't believe what they were doing to her think about it - all of these shootings we have and why don't they take these people in to the hospital? They pick on poor Brittney Spears? They pick on me? I don't even own a gun and refuse to own one.

Her dad is now her guardian. I am sure there are a lot of things that have happened to her that we don't know about. You will hear one day that it was this "cult" that caused a lot of her problems. Mark my words on that one.

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From:dreamsailboat
Date:October 18th, 2008 08:55 pm (UTC)

Re: They go after Famous People Too

(Link)
the "cult" is the corruption in government, and it's organized criminal partners. corruption in the governmnt and corporations are definitly waging a chemical and psychological wafare holocaust against America... brain damaging people and torturing people to death.
From:ext_2123096
Date:August 21st, 2013 02:58 am (UTC)
(Link)
TX DL 11716172
8407 A Fathom Circle
Austin Tx, 78750
Work it !!!

I like my gangstalker's (www.itanimulli.com)...they are almost as fun as my primordial dwarfs and 4th dimensional reptilian pets.

However...those missing hubcaps need some serious work. I will even chip in to help them get one.

Remember..Im always about 20 steps ahead and directly behind you. Its a 5th dimensional thing.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:November 9th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)

Poisoned / Personal References

(Link)
Sat Dec 16 2006

Poisoned / Personal References

Hi

I thought it might be a good idea to go on record with the following information in light of this "poisoning" issue I ran into on Monday September 11 2006 while having breakfast at the Husky restaurant in Mississauga Ontario and wound up in hospital emergency.

Located here :

http://www.goliathboards.com/users5/gerryduffett/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1166251702

This is very important event.

A time period when I first became sick.

This is a list of people I had direct physical contact with on a regular basis when I was poisoned and almost died during the last few months of 1997 when I was employed at Harper Detroit Diesel in Toronto.

There was a "constructive dismissal" issue aimed at me over a project we built for Somalia that I was not aware of at the time.

It was an issue of the right to refuse unsafe work by not going there.

Somalia was a war zone at that time.

Larry Sawchuck, Frank Hipkins and Karen Hannam were the main instigators in a written, telephone, rumor, slander and smear campaign targeting me.

As far as I know, no one has been arrested for poisoning me around this time.

This person or persons are still "out there."

Paul Harper
416-259-3281

Steve Harper
416-259-3281

Cris Fertnig
416-259-3281

Bob Wilford
416-259-3281

Gary Logan
?

Larry Sawchuck
?

Karen Hannam
?

Frank Hipkins
905-565-1621

Paul Kinkley
905-565-1621

Barry Ross
?

Mike Binseel
905-795-0050

Lanny Ohard
416-238-1529

Clyde Etkins
?

Ted Batchelor
905-738-7070

Russ Mayne
905-273-9050

Greg Campen
905-670-2233

Martin Dykstra
905-670-2233

Gregg McGrath
780-413-1800

Alan Wight
905-820-9191

Cris Wight
905-820-9191

Mike Boyde
905-820-9191

John Carpenter
905-820-9191

Although there were many, many other people who I worked with and had direct physical contact with.

My gut instincts bring these people to mind.

I feel a person or persons in this group may have some information about who poisoned me.

--------------------------------------------

Gerry Duffett

Toronto / Ontario / Canada

gerryduffett47@yahoo.com
gerryduffett@fastmail.ca

http://gerryduffett.proboards54.com/index.cgi

http://www.goliathboards.com/users5/gerryduffett/index.cgi

[User Picture Icon]
From:dreamsailboat
Date:November 9th, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC)

Re: Poisoned / Personal References

(Link)
You should definitly talk to the proper authorities in your area.

You might also try to talk to the people involved personally if you feel safe to approach them. If they are guilty of crimes they could be very dangerous and pose a threat to you to do so.

You should be thankful you have survived and most importantly try and move forward with your life.

If you want to truely help the issue, you might try to think how you could prevent future problems or what advice you would give to others to help others in this same situation.

I think it is a big social problem, and not a problem that individuals should have to face alone.

If you want to help your individual problem, try and constructively and safely help the larger problem. You are a survivor, help others to survive and prevent future victims from falling prey to these atrocities.

From:(Anonymous)
Date:February 25th, 2008 02:27 am (UTC)

Re: Gang Stalking

(Link)
http://www.GangStalkingWorld.com

What is Gang Stalking?

Gang Stalking is a systemic form of control, which seeks to control every aspect of a Targeted Individuals life. Gang Stalking has many similarities to workplace mobbing, but takes place outside in the community. It called Gang Stalking, because the target is followed around and placed under surveillance by groups of organised Civilian Spies/Snitches 24/7.

Many Targeted Individuals are harassed in this way for months or even years before they realise that they are being targeted by an organised protocol of harassment.

What happens during Gang Stalking is very similar to what happened to many innocent individuals in the former East Germany or Activists and Dissidents in Russia. Many innocent people in the former East Germany would be targeted for these harassment programs, and then their friends, family, and the community at large would be used to monitor, prosecute, and harass them. In Russia it was used by the state to declare activist, dissidents or anyone they thought to be an enemy of the state as mentally unfit and many were institutionalised using this form of systemic control.

The closest thing to Gang Stalking that democratic countries have seen before is McCarthyism, Cointelpro, and RED SQUAD programs. Red Squad programs were used for monitoring, and harassment of various groups and they have been in place for over a hundred years.

Civilian spies are recruited from every level and sector of society. Just like with Cointelpro investigations, everyone in the targets life is made a part of this ongoing never ending systemic form of control and harassment. These actions are specifically designed to control the target and to keep them in line. These actions are also designed to destroy the target over years, make them look crazy and leave them with no form of support.

For the targets of this harassment, Gang Stalking is experienced as a covert psychological, emotional and physical attack, that is capable of immobilizing and destroying a target over time. For the state it’s a way to keep the targets in line, control them, or destroy them.

Worldwide programs of control and conformity have been used with equal success and lethality. What we are seeing now is a global co-ordinated and organised effort of control and conformity. Reports of Gang Stalking are not only coming in from democratic countries, but they are coming in from many other countries as well.

The modern day systemic form of control could only be funded at higher governmental levels, just like it has in other societies where these similar types of harassment programs have been implemented. It's all part of a system of control and conformity that has been in place for many years. A system of control with many local groups and appendages taking part.

What are other Names for Gang Stalking?

There are many names for this form of systemic control and harassment. Under the Gang Stalking label you will also find such terms as Organised Stalking, Cause Stalking, Multi-Stalking, Community Mobbing, but it's all part of the same harassment protocol. What many people do not realise is that Gang Stalking is just one appendage of this systemic form of control. There are other forms of control used to repress, and keep individuals in line. Other forms or appendages include, but are not limited to: Mobbing, Cointelpro, The Buzzsaw, Covert War, Electronic Harassment, etc. These are the just some of the names being given to a very old game, that is once again being played by governments on their unsuspecting citizens.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:February 25th, 2008 02:29 am (UTC)

Re: Gang Stalking

(Link)
http://www.TheHiddenEvil.com


elcome. This website is devoted to explaining a global program of torture, murder & persecution which I call the Hidden Evil. It includes a vast network of plain-clothed citizen informants, which is used for public stalking, & the use of Directed Energy Weapons on targeted individuals. All core factions of the community are involved, & everyone, from seniors to children, participates in Gang Stalking. Governments have used these groups in some form since the Roman Empire. The Hidden Evil is an example of this pattern repeating itself.

The citizens' network controls the streets of your neighborhoods. The evidence suggests that this network is not just part of a sub-culture within society, but that it literally permeates all aspects of it, & is therefore, part of the mainstream. As I'll demonstrate, this has happened before. The network is the creation of supra-governmental Think Tanks, which are made up of people of tremendous wealth. These Think Tanks manipulate your government like a puppet. So, in essence, these wealthy individuals control your streets.

The citizen Gang Stalking portion of the program is done under the guise of keeping an eye on internal threats to state security & cleaning up neighborhoods. As I'll demonstrate, this is exactly what the informant networks in East Germany & Russia were told when they were recruited into these state-sponsored programs. On the neighborhood level, despite claims of patriotism, the main reasons for their participation are empowerment & adventure.

Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) & other behavior modification tools are used as weapons during public harassment. These attacks are combined with military-grade, silent, through-the-wall Directed Energy Weapons (DEW), & advanced electronic surveillance equipment. Many targets are attacked night & day with these weapons.

I have found that this program is a symptom of a heavily corrupted society under psychopathic rule. The program, in its basic form, is part of a re-occurring historical theme, which includes psychopaths gaining control of governments, & using a percentage of the population to destroy their enemies. This is done to pave the way for an overt dictatorship, & is always done under the banner of righteousness. In its current form, it is part of a political movement known as the New World Order. On this site, I'll describe what Think Tanks are behind it. From top to bottom, the Hidden Evil is about power & control.

The mainstream news, congress, parliament, & politicians will openly deny that this exists. Organizations under the control of the financial elite will also deny it, & may be used to discredit anyone who exposes it. The media will also be used in this manner. In the future, when the authorized historians write the official history books, this part of it will be left out or whitewashed.

So this site will also serve as a record. It will be a testimony for anyone who wants to learn the truth about how the streets of the NATO nations were taken over by multi-national corporations, that used federally sponsored harassment groups to Gang Stalk their opposition, in order to pave the way for a corporate-fascist dictatorship.
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From:dreamsailboat
Date:February 25th, 2008 10:25 am (UTC)

Re: chemical warfare and psychological warfare

(Link)
I think the Directed Energy Weapons (DEW), you are talking about are forms of commercial radar units use against people, to harrasse or disrupt communications, or possibly ultra-sonic forms of weapons, or high or low pitched audio weapons.

These stalkers and grouips do favor, hard to trace weapons to reinforce their attacks, and also use a lot of chemical warfare: in the form of household hazardous chemicals, or industrial chemicals, or home made sorts from them. Cross contamination and insecticide type area poisonings and various attacks aimed at debilitating the victims brain functions and central nervous system (CNS agents) to help make the target look insane or incompetant. These criminals are very dangerous, and should be reported as much as is safe.

It is very sad that the governemnt and much of local law enforcment are hiding the problem, and refusing to investigate or fraudulently trying to intentionally mis-label victims and hide the terrorism that these holocaust groups create...

Radio frequency (RF) broadcasting and black box broadcasting as well as other sorts are responsible for much to the hidden and publicly denied audio terrorism and stalking.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:March 4th, 2008 02:21 am (UTC)

Re: chemical warfare and psychological warfare

(Link)
http://hightechharassment.com/

Hello,

Why do people claim that they have lived in haunted houses? Why do mothers kill their children and claim that God told them to do it? Why do people suddenly and unexpectedly go berserk and commit violent acts possibly with guns? Why do people claim that they are being harassed with mind control devices or radiation weapons? Why do people claim that electronic implants are implanted in their bodies to control them? Why do people claim they were setup by the system and sent to prison?

The United States government has a secret element that monitors and influences the American people. This secret government operates above the law. Its existence is denied by the government and only a handful of specially selected prominent members of our society know of it. It conducts covert operations outside the United State and also domestic covert operations inside the United States. In times of war, this secret government will take action to influence American public opinion in favor of supporting the war effort. The secret American government uses propaganda as a weapon in times of war.

The secret government for decades has been conducting a covert domestic war against mentally ill people inside the United States. The above mentioned questions are a direct result of this covert war. The secret American government has direct control of a secret police force used in the covert domestic operations inside the United States. The name of this secret police force is UltraSonics.
[User Picture Icon]
From:dreamsailboat
Date:October 18th, 2008 08:59 pm (UTC)

Re: chemical warfare and psychological warfare

(Link)
If the US Government had all courage or honor, it would stop lying about domestic chemical warfare and the us criminal corruption, and stand up and do something about all this domestic terrorism and the real crime here.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:May 24th, 2009 12:15 pm (UTC)

I know it's real

(Link)
I have a friend that used to work in Archbold,Ohio who was constantly slandered no matter how much he minded his own business. When sabotage of his work machines didn't discourage him, he found himself the victim of slanderous gossip and things being said knowingly within earshot of him to others about him as if to provoke him to get angry and lose his job. I later learned that he had greater motivation to endure this attack. He often went out of his way to try to work overtime. I found out that his dad had cancer and he was trying to help with the chemotherapy expenses but wanted to be assigned overtime fairly and not out of pity. When all else failed to discourage him (including social harassment by telling interested women at work that he "wasn't interest" and similar words to run interference). They resorted to slandering his dad that none of them even knew. My friend's dad is a Vietnam Vet and he is very proud of his dad. Needless to say, for as much as he was willing to endure to keep his job, that was going too far. He confronted the main instigator and told him in front of everyone to say what he was saying behind to back to his face about his dad. The guy couldn't and my friend called him the coward that he was to his face in front of everyone. He also physically bumped that guy a few times (which he says he later regretted). Despite various witnesses of the ongoing harassment, the company disciplined him for inappropriate behavior and portrayed the slanderer as a victim. Long story short, he himself was hospitalized for a few months but his job didn't get word of his situation until nearly around the time he was released. By then, he had made arrangements to relocate with family where they could monitor his recooperation. Even so, despite now living 1 and 1/2 hours away from work, he accepted their rehire offer to begin that Monday. I would think he was crazy if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. The night before he was to begin work, he put his safety glasses in the toolbox along with namebadge and other worktools. He doublechecked to make sure the trunk was shut and locked as well as all the car doors(which seemed paranoid at the time)and the next day, the toolbox along with the things needed for his job, had disappeared from the locked car from within the locked trunk!!! Everything else, the portable dvd player, various pneumatic tools, a cordless drill, his laptop even; were still there. He says he decided he'd be better of working a job closer to his family but I know he considered that this latest incident would probably be used to try to make him look paranoid and incompetent especially since he'd be returning to what was a growing number of people who started noticing and questioning how he was being singled out despite minding his own business to an obvious extreme.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:June 30th, 2010 02:14 am (UTC)

Ok, So Where do we go from here?

(Link)
There are numerous websites dedicated to community mobbing but there is little information regarding how to stop it. Knowing the techniques is easy. I will share a tip, nothing can sensitize you unless you let it. It is a very scaring being watched from another vehicle, that is actual stalking and there are laws. Carry video camera and follow him. If you see the person one more time, report to the police. Keep a video camera on record at all times. I watched a guy doing that in traffic. He had a tripod with a video camera as he was driving. Shaking keys, well, shake you keys right back. Things like that are irritating. It is scarier when they get into your home or car to snoop around. Keys shaky, well, there is an idiot level we all have, that won't go on too long. Obviously, you know your a not a bad person or you would be arrested and charged. They are the criminals. Their cause is illegal activity. That is all. Not reacting to even the most egregious law violations is best. Keep living. Better, start a group and connect with others. I am an American, I hear Canada has major problems with this. Very disheartening. If you are a decent person and that is happening. I am very sorry that it is. People just haven't developed mentally. Try to stay calm and try to connect with others. It is hard because you don't trust and are unsure who of the person on the other end me too. But, I am still willing to reachout, share emails, over come the fear. That is the only way. I don't sell out. I have values. I am not bought, so no worries from me. But I am worried on my end. I just haven't met in my entire life a person who was ever worth a damn and has similar values. I don't go from TI to the dark side.
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